Home > Ancestral Genetic Pre-History > Y-DNA Haplogroup Confirmation

Official Zohrab/Zorab Family Badge

Descendants of Zohrab of the Manuchariants

Y-DNA Haplogroup Confirmation

Home Page Family Trees Biographical Details Bibliography
Notes Site-Map Index of Names Genetic Prehistory

In July 2007, Family Tree DNA, to whom the Genographic Project had transferred Peter Douglas Zohrab's original DNA samples and results,confirmed that he, together with his male-line ancestors, belong to the R1b1 haplogroup, on the basis of fresh DNA samples that he had supplied to them.

The information below from and about Vincent Vizachero refers to his ht35 research group on the Family Tree DNA website.  This is what Wikipedia has to say about ht35:

"In human genetics, Haplotype 35, also called ht35 or the Armenian Modal Haplotype, is a Y chromosome haplotype of Y-STR microsatellite variations, associated with the Haplogroup R1b. It is characterized by DYS393=12 (as opposed to the Atlantic Modal Haplotype, another R1b haplotype, which is characterized by DYS393=13). The members of this haplotype are found in high numbers in Anatolia and Armenia...."

(By the way, Peter Douglas Zohrab's result for DYS393 was neither 12 nor 13, but 14.) 

Vizazchero says this on his project's website:

"The goal of the ht35 DNA Project is to investigate the history and distribution of the most ancient clades of haplogroup R1b1b2;"and

"Our goal is to investigate the relationship between haplogroup R1b1b2 and TaqI 49a,f haplotype 35 (aka ht35)."

In 2008, Peter Douglas Zohrab had a Deep Clade-R test done by Family Tree DNA, which showed that he, together with his male-line ancestors, belong more precisely to the R1b1b2a1 haplogroup. 

This is what Vincent Vizachero (Monday, 2 February 2009 ) initially had to say about this result (NB: Vincent Vizachero later equated the A4 category (Peter Douglas Zohrab's category) with R1b1b2a1a (see below)):

"The most important SNP results are these:

M269+, of course, confirms that you are in R1b1b2 but this we were
99.9% sure of just from the STRs.
L11+ P310+ P311+ are three fairly recently discovered SNPs within
R1b1b2. Most R1b1b2 in Europe are positive for these three SNPs, like
you. It is believed that most R1b1b2 in western Asia will be negative
for these three, and that the first people to be positive for them
lived during the neolithic transition. WHERE those people lived is an
open question, and results from you and other Armenians will be
helpful in establishing this.

P312- U106- are the two SNPs that separate you from most western
Europeans. The vast majority (more than 90%) of R1b1b2 in Europe are
positive for either P312 or U106.
" As I understand it, the term "neolithic transition" refers to the transition from a hunter-gathering lifestyle to an agricultural lifestyle.

Later, in a very interesting email, Vincent Vizachero (Wednesday, 13 May 2009 ) had this to say:

"The project now has over 110 members, 70 of which have tested either all of the available SNPs or enough of them to get a definitive haplogroup assignment. This project is for everyone in R1b1b2 who is negative for both P312 and U106. Within that group, we now are able to sub-divide members into four "final" groups. In this email, and on our results page, I call them A1, A2, A3, and A4. The SNP markers for each group are:

A1 is M269+ L23- L51- L11- (same as ISOGG R1b1b2*)
A2 is M269+ L23+ L51- L11- (same as ISOGG R1b1b2a*)
A3 is M269+ L23+ L51+ L11- (same as ISOGG R1b1b2a1*)
A4 is M269+ L23+ L51+ L11+ (same as ISOGG R1b1b2a1a*)

Additionally, you will see on our Y results page several additional categories for people who are not yet fully resolved either because they have not received all the results they've ordered or haven't ordered sufficient testing.

Anyway, the majority of our members fall into the first two groups:

A1 = 11 members (16%)
A2 = 32 members (46%)
A3 = 10 members (14%)
A4 = 17 members (24%)

Despite our growth, we don't yet have enough folks with both known geographic origins and full SNP results to get as much granularity as I'd like. But let's look at things two ways.

First, let's take the subset of the 70 SNP-tested members who have provided some information about their paternal origin: they have specified a country in their FTDNA account and/or they are members of the Jewish R1b project. This amounts to 59 people who both have some ancestry information and who are SNP-tested.

I split these 59 people into three groups:

"Jewish" members (n= 11) are simply those who are members of the Jewish R1b Project.

"NW Europe" members (n=22) are those whose "Country of Origin" is England, Germany, Ireland, Lithuania, Netherlands, Poland, Russian Federation, Scotland, Switzerland, or United Kingdom. "SE Europe/SW Asia" members (n=26) are those whose "Country of Origin" is Algeria, Armenia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, India, Iran, Italy, Kazakhstan, Lebanon, Turkey, Ukraine, or United Arab Emirates.

I want to look at the Jewish group separately for a minute. All of these fall into the most basal paragroups: A1 and A2. That is, so far 100% of our Jewish members are L51-. Turning now to the other 48 members, these 48 are divided among the four categories mentioned above (A1, A2, A3, and A4). The geographical division within these four categories is striking.

A1 (n=5) is 100% "SE Europe/SW Asia" and 0% "NW Europe"
A2 (n=26) is 65% "SE Europe/SW Asia" and 35% "NW Europe"
A3 (n=4) is 50% "SE Europe/SW Asia" and 50% "NW Europe"

Put another way, 85% of members from "SE Europe/SW Asia" are in A1 or A2 (that is, are L51-) while only 41% of "NW Europe" members fit that description. Remember from above that 100% of our "Jewish" members are L51-.

Group A1, in particular, shows a strong bias towards SE Europe and SW Asia: to date no member of our project in that group falls into my "NW Europe" category. From prior analysis, it appears that R1b1b2 moved north and west into Europe quite rapidly. And the data we are seeing in our project are consistent with that: the oldest forms of R1b1b2 are found at high frequency in the "homeland" of SW Asia and places with the most contact with that region. The closer we get to NW Europe, the more we observe the youngest, derived forms of R1b1b2.

The R1b1b2 we see in Arabian, Persian, and Jewish members of our project appears to be entirely indigenous to these populations and not the result of recent migrations or intermarriage. This, alone, I think is a revolutionary finding.

One other item of note is that the modal haplotype for our A4 (L11+ P312- U106-) members is (at 12 markers) perfectly co-incident with the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH). This is one of the reasons I think R-P312 and R-U106 arose in quite rapid succession. Our two SEE/SWA L51+ members are both L11+ also: one from Italy, and the other from Armenia."

The one from Armenia is Peter Douglas Zohrab.

Note that he states that "the modal haplotype for our A4 (L11+ P312- U106-) members is (at 12 markers) perfectly co-incident with the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype."  This is a very well-known haplotype.  Note also that Vizachero equates the A4 category (my category) with R1b1b2a1a.  In 2011, this was apparently renamed R1b1a2a1a1, but Vincent Vizachero appears to be in dispute with Family Tree DNA, so it is not certain whether he agrees with the restructuring of the Y-DNA tree that has taken place in 2011.








Family Tree

Facts & Photographs



Peter Douglas Zohrab

Latest Update

10 October 2015